You're here because of you! It's not a diversity play

Hello! 👋

Welcome to the 10th conversation on She Got You!, a newsletter in which I share my conversations with women at work. I also cover themes related to women; my previous edition on Women in Public is one such piece.

Today's conversation is with Sneha Ganapavarapu, a lawyer-turned-project manager, musician and podcaster. Her podcast Khooni is one of India's leading true crime podcasts, and like many creators out there, Sneha has learned the ropes of the craft while making the podcast.

Sneha and I have been friends for nearly four years and have met through Twitter. We've shared multiple coffees, crime reports, and tearjerking stories over the years. This conversation also introduces Sneha to me in a different light — so here's how she's got you! 👇

Sunaina: Tell me about yourself and what you do.

Sneha: Oh, where do I start? That's always such a heavy question, but here goes. Professionally, I handle project management, legal and some business development for the software development side of a renewable energy consultancy in Edinburgh. I was a lawyer in India and started my career in corporate litigation in 2013. I moved into the pharmaceutical industry, and later, I found my niche in software licensing, which interested me in tech. That's when I decided to get into a business role and moved to Edinburgh for my master's (MBA). 

Since childhood, I’ve had multiple interests. I'm a trained Carnatic music singer; I play guitar and ukulele. I swim, and it's something close to my heart. Plus, I run a podcast. In India, I used to teach at a school for girls from socially marginalised families. I believe in this cause because it helps women across the board by ensuring education at the grassroots level on topics such as mental, sexual, and general health.

Sunaina: Right! So, I know you found interest in tech, so you could've remained a tech lawyer, right? Why did you move into project management, a completely different field?

Sneha: My last job in India was as a lawyer at a tech company. But throughout my life, I liked organising or streamlining things. The operations side of products made more sense to me, and during the pandemic, I realised it was something I could pursue. In under-graduation, I studied BBA-LLB, so I was always interested in management. I wouldn't say I'm off law entirely because I still handle legal at my current workplace, but having been in that industry for seven years, I didn't really like some aspects.

Because, at the end of the day, law in India is an old boys' club, especially in litigation. There are so many days when it demotivates you — like, you know you have your case, but the opposite lawyer knows the judge better. So yeah! This is on record, Sunaina. You don't have to redact this for the sake of publishing.

While I acknowledge that things have improved in India, my experience in 2013-14, particularly in litigation, was challenging. However, I managed to transition away from it while maintaining connections with my first boss and former colleagues. The feeling of being out of place in courts led me to tech and management within the legal field. 

See, some things can change, but they should happen collectively; luckily, I found my own path. I envision myself continuing to work at my current workplace for a long time, as I have faith in their cause and my colleagues. And for the first time in my life, I can see the results of what I've done. A big motivation!

Sunaina: Do you miss practising law?

Sneha: Of course I do! I miss the rituals of suiting up, wearing the robes, hanging out with my lawyer friends, going to Telangana High Court's canteen (haha!), and, more importantly, the research. What I don't miss is feeling like an outsider by trying really hard to fit in.

Sunaina: ⁠Many companies get away without having a POSH structure in place. Isn't it mandatory for organisations to have one?

Sneha: The POSH Act 2013 requires organisations to have an internal complaints committee to address grievances about sexual abuse at work. A friend's mother — someone I look up to — sits on these committees, and conversations with her have made me realise there are severe lapses in implementation. When things aren't implemented correctly, things fall through the cracks, so the way to go about it is to get the court's sanctions behind these implementations. To be precise, 50 per cent of the cooperation from a company's POSH team and 50 per cent from the court should be obtained to set an example. The corporates follow it; primarily, startups and mid-sized companies get away without POSH compliances. I should also admit I’m no POSH expert and haven’t lived in India in two years, so I hope things are changing for good.

Sunaina: Got it. But what do you mean by lapses in implementation?

Sneha: Even after the MeToo movement, women's issues and complaints are rarely taken seriously. Some managements implore women to refrain from seeking police help by promising it can be sorted at the organisational level, diluting the issue's gravity. Women fear losing their jobs if they go against the management and seek the police. So, that level of confidence is missing. Fundamentally, this concern exists worldwide, and women across the board are scared to talk about it for multiple reasons. 

Sunaina: Right. When you need a job, your survival instincts are strong, right? You're already traumatised, and disrupting your life and financial situation also seems too much.

Sneha: Exactly! It also makes women feel like they cannot complain when they are being harassed at a workplace. The Vishaka Guidelines. They were promulgated by the Indian Supreme Court in 1997 and superseded in 2013 by the Sexual Harassment of Women at Workplace (Prevention, Prohibition and Redressal) Act. It's sad that despite having such measures in place, there is a definite lack of implementation, resulting in women feeling unsafe in their workplaces.

Sunaina: I've heard men say they prefer not working or talking to women at work because they're unsure what will be used against them.

Sneha: I've seen people casually remarking, "Oh my god, if I do anything, it'll be a #MeToo" or "If I talk to a woman, she'll turn this into a MeToo movement." It's become a joke as opposed to being taken seriously. Also, choosing to be away from women at work actually means keeping them away from work, projects, and promotions — it's just a vicious cycle.

Sunaina: Absolutely! Talking about gender, have you faced any discrimination at work?

Sneha: When I was a lawyer in India, I'd get flippant comments such as, "Oh, you'll get married; you don't have to work this hard." My mistakes would be attributed to my gender; I was looked at as a burden rather than an asset because my workplaces felt I should go home at a particular time. Sometimes, clients would walk in and assume I was a secretary and not their lawyer. Let me share an incident. 👇

My firm once handled a leading South Indian actor's case. It was quite a big one, and we worked days and nights on it. I often stayed back after work to do the paperwork. One night, his secretary came to drop off papers, approached me and said (in a high-pitch), "Is sir not around?" I asked, "Sir, who?" And he replied, "Aren't you the typist? I'm looking for a lawyer here." Our firm's clerk took offence on my behalf and retorted, "She is the lawyer handling your case." I was respected enough for someone to stand up for me, but for the first time in my life, I was made uncomfortable and realised this would be a thing for the rest of my life.

That said, I studied at one of India's top five law schools based on merit, not gender. My first boss would always call me his colleague, not his junior or associate. I've had great mentors — my current boss, too. For what it’s worth, those who matter don’t look at your gender.

Sunaina: What has been the highlight of your career so far?

Sneha: The fact that I've switched careers in my early 30s, especially after working for so long in one particular field! I'm glad it was possible, and most of it was likely because of the transferrable skills I've picked up. Law to renewables — although it seems like two different worlds, they are the same kind of industries, where everybody knows everybody and networks massively. The only difference is that I handle the operations, which I wasn't into when practising law.

The renewable energy industry in the UK is pretty welcoming; I've been here for a year, and I feel I've made a little niche for myself. It's a whole new experience because I work as a project manager at a startup, which I haven't done before. I've been doing things I have wanted, and I'm glad I have the flexibility to do these things at work.

My latest work win is launching a new product. We launched a free version in January and received good reviews. It's a map-based SaaS platform that enables planning and visualisation of all stages of building and maintaining a renewable energy project, such as an offshore wind farm. I am excited to see how it grows in the coming months.

Sunaina: You run a podcast called Khooni. Can you tell me more about it?

Sneha: My law school classmate and I started Khooni as a passion project, and it reached heights we didn't imagine. We got to collaborate with companies like Ogilvy, Red FM, and NGOs to create awareness on rape, safety, and reporting crimes. After the pandemic, I moved to Edinburgh for college, got busy and couldn't make time. After college, I went home and had some time for myself, where I tried making the podcast work. My co-host also works in a hectic law firm, so it's not easy to prioritise the podcast. 

And I've noticed this with many women — after reaching a certain point in your career, you lose out on doing passion projects because you don't have the time. Several companies still treat women like resources rather than human beings, but props to my co-host; she never over-promised or signed up for what she couldn't do. I intend to continue working on the podcast and looking for ways to produce it. Because people still listen to Khooni and reach out to us. It's also because we stick to our beliefs and speak our minds despite the current socio-political climate, and I think that's the draw. I've always said we're an intelligent Indian's true-crime podcast; whatever content I have is that. The plan is to bring it back in the next six months.

Sunaina: One podcast every woman should check out?

Sneha: The Guilty Feminist by Deborah Frances-White. I love how Deborah approaches the little issues with hilarity! The podcast talks about the contradictory issues you face daily while supporting women; they handle serious topics like mental health and dating with not-so-seriousness. 

This episode resonates with me. Women have always been told, whether directly or indirectly, that putting ourselves first is selfish. Society conditions us into thinking that loving ourselves is wrong or inconsiderate. I like the way this episode handles this theme and how loving yourself is the first step and almost like resistance against the society that made us believe over the years.

Sunaina: Advice for women entering the workforce?

Sneha: Know your worth and ALWAYS, ALWAYS believe that you are where you are because you are good enough to be there. You're not a diversity hire; you get opportunities because of your qualifications, and no matter what anyone says, this can't be snatched away from you. And when you (I'm not saying if, I'm saying when) become successful and achieve what you want, always know that it's because of you. You worked hard for it. Don't feel guilty if you’ve gotten a promotion over someone who has been in the organisation longer than you. It's because of your ideas, strengths, and how you conduct yourself — it's not a diversity play.

Sunaina: Right! Can women have it all?

Sneha: Since I don't want it all, I don't know. But I've seen it happen! A prime example is my mom's cousin, who's a mom, a CXO at a prominent investment firm, and has a proper life and balance outside her professional accomplishments and I have such women to look up to. Of course, you need support from your family and partner, and I'm super lucky to have my family's support; otherwise, it's not easy for a 30-year-old Indian woman to drop everything and move across the world to pursue a new career.

I should thank my grandparents, my uncle, cousins, friends, and bosses—to be precise, one of my early bosses, who always believed I could do much more than be a lawyer in India. My current boss took a leap of faith and gave me this opportunity.

That was my conversation with Sneha. You can follow her on LinkedIn to learn more about her work.